Monday, February 05, 2007

Brian McLaren's True Views?

How does Brian McLaren top this one?

An even bigger question is...How can Brian McLaren be categorized as a Christian author after comments such as these?

Look at what he says in this article for "The Vision Project":

"So how do we understand the vision that Jesus’ term “kingdom of God” evoked in its original hearers? One phrase has been echoing in my imagination lately: “beautiful whole.”

...But Jesus broke down the walls of all their boxes. He called people to see themselves as part of a beautiful whole in which all were included, all were equal, none boxed in.

But this beautiful whole wasn’t just for human beings. He spoke of the Creator’s love for sparrows and crows, wildflowers and weeds. He looked at human society as a fragment of this larger reality … the reality of “beloved creation” – the beautiful whole that is as big as the cosmos, and bigger still, in which every particle is known, named, and loved.

Can we even say something absurd? Can we say that this beautiful whole is even bigger than God, because it begins with God in all God’s infinite fullness, and then adds creation? Isn’t that the most beautiful whole imaginable?

This is, to me, the vision that our world needs. To believe in this vision is to make the beautiful whole absolute, and to relativize every other box (or human construction) in its presence. It truly is a call to “rethink everything.”




So let me get this right. Brian McLaren is saying that God + His creation is bigger than God-The Alpha and Omega-the infinite, omniscient, sovereign God? This "beautiful whole" is actually the completed God? God needs His creation to be complete?

WOW!

If someone wants to defend Brian McLaren as a Christian author after Panentheistic statements like these they are going to have a hard time, unless of course they choose to redefine or "rethink" a new kind of Christian faith.

Please consider this warning--If this is truly what Brian McLaren means by this statement, this is not Biblical Christianity and he should not be considered a Christian author.

17 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So God is improved upon by adding to him creation according to this guy McLaren.

McLaren is equating and even elevating creation above God.

He is saying that God is dependent on what he created to be even better. By saying what he did, McLaren is saying that God is lacking, that God is incomplete without his creation added to Him.

So I guess God has an "Empty Hole" until he can fulfill the "Beautiful Whole" by adding his creation to himself?

To top things off McLaren believes that MAN (you and I) is necessary to "believe" in this vision of God, and THEN God will finally be complete and absolute!

God needs our belief in this form of panentheism so that He (God) can be complete. Wow!

And just think, our brothers in Christ at our former church (University Baptist Church) have no problem recommending books by this guy. Heaven help us. (and yes we have warned them and asked them to remove their recommendations of Brian McLaren books but they decided not to).

-KCO

10:53 AM  
Blogger Phil Perkins said...

By definition, Emergents are not believers. For instance, Tony Jones said that the Emergent doesn't "take a position on absolute truth or anything else for that matter." So, he believes nothing. Donald Miller said, "If we hold that Jesus wanted us to 'believe' certain ideas or 'do' certain things in order to be a Christian, we are holding to heresy."
Read that here: http://www.donaldmillerwords.com/searching.php and here: http://zitsemerge.blogspot.com/2006/11/donald-miller-line-by-lie.html .

So the Emergent has said they believe nothing or next to nothing, yet they come pretending to be believers. They are lying.

Your conclusion is spot on.

In Christ,
Phil Perkins.

In Christ,
Phil Perkins.

11:38 AM  
Anonymous dPazos said...

My brothers, we are spending much time on these idiots. Both Brian McLaren and Rob Bell are total idiots. Their philosophies are clearly not Christian or even consistent. Too bad your former church is recommending their books or videos. BE careful, I think some Presbyterian churches are now recommending Nooma videos.
The SuperBowl was awesome!
Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy really shined like stars. Go Colts!

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Brady said...

Can someone tell me why anyone would have considered McLaren a christian author in the first place? His entire movement starts with a contradiction of scripture, by suggesting that we can't know the truth. Yet, Jesus clearly said, "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." Since the emergent church claims not to know any truth, then I suppose the conclusion for a Bible-believing person is that emergents like McL are not free.

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Gigi said...

This man espouses a marriage (pun intended) between Judeo-Christian theology and Hindu thought. But his match-making is headed for divorce court. It's not Christian and certainly not Hindu.

It baffles me why any church would pay attention to this guy. His is not the God of the Bible. He's totally confused and camouflages the error in words that are left open to interpretation ... because, after all, truth cannot be known.

It's worthless. Who cares? This is God made in McLaren's brain's image.

The dude needs a REAL job somewhere.

11:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Gigi and Brady:

Brady, you asked: "Can someone tell me why anyone would have considered McLaren a christian author in the first place?"

My answer to that is: Because there are many (supposedly) properly bibically based churches, Like UBC and other Baptists, etc. that recommend the writings of such heretics. Thereby, leading members to believe these heretics are safe sources of thought and teachings. Therein lies the danger. This is why we are so disturbed over this kind of thing.

Gigi, you said "It baffles me why any church would pay attention to this guy." and "who cares?".

I don't know why any church would pay attention to
B. McL. or Rob Bell, Campolo, etc. It is strange. We care for the reasons mentioned above. Thanks for your comments.
-KCO

9:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now, that McLaren's essay at Gloria Crook's website has been noticed, please, those of you who are interested in following the dots, follow Gloria to Robert Muller, her mentor, and from there follow them both to Alice Bailey's books that she channeled from her unseen entity Djwahl Khul. She was the head of the Theosophical Society which was founded by a Madame Blavatsky and a Colonel Olcott. You would be amazed at how many well-known people are followers of Alice Bailey/Khul. And Muller's World Core Curriculum (he was a big shot at the United Nations during the tenure of U Thant) has infiltrated many schools, including public ones.

4:50 PM  
Anonymous dPazos said...

Friends and Scholars:
We all know the United Nations is run by self-contradictory liberal idiots. None of the above mentioned dudes should be remotely classified as 'Christian'. Perhaps we are spending too much time and energy on idiots. Very strange that any church (or synagogue or mosque for that matter) would take any of the aforementioned loony-tunes seriously.

6:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The point, dpazos, is that McLaren is being promoted by Gloria Crook. And "we all" DON'T know the truth about the U.N. Not too long ago, George W. Bush, signed our country on again to UNESCO and his wife, Laura, was filmed speaking publicly about the great good of UNESCO. Our government schools have been restructured to align with Geo. Parkyn's Plan for Lifelong Education. (read this)
(http://www.learn-usa.com/education_transformation/er003.htm
It would be helpful for readers to investigate the connection of all these movements, including Emergent and its promoters, to General Systems Theory. GST is the means of control that is being used in 'THE CHURCH', in 'EDUCATION', and in the governance of this world. Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Plan/PEACE Plan is about controlling large groups of people using Systems Theory. Any Bible believers who are reading at this site understand that this world is headed for a WORLD RELIGION, WORLD ECONOMIC SYSTEM AND A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. Masses of people must be controlled, one way or another. The people must be disconnected from God's Word. McLaren and the others like him, along with the Pagan Theosophists will help bring all that about. Read a bit on the subject of PPBS (Planning, Programming and Budgeting System. On General Systems Theory and who wrote about it. On Performance Based Systems, in government, in schools, in churches, in business. Warren is connected to McLaren. Warren is connected to Deming and Drucker and their business models. Follow the dots, people.

8:09 AM  
Anonymous dPazos said...

Anonymous friends, you obviously subscribe to the 'One World' stuff. Perhaps you have read too much into the 'Left Behind' series. I am not so paranoid about these 'One World' idiots. I suppose when they take over, they can read my comments calling them idiots. Remember that God is more powerful than evil. The United Nations does not intimidate me squat. They have lost credibility in many (including the US) nations recently. Do not be deceived by the fact that the United Nations does SOME good in the Third World. They are mostly evil!
Regarding those Christians or churches who recommend such wacky authors -- well, when you read those authors, you can discern what they are made of! You believe everything you read?

2:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MESSAGE

10:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dpazos, who said anything about Left Behind or Tim LaHaye. Do you assume that those who warn about Rick Warren and the related New Age movement are promoters of LaHaye? His writings are not scriptural either. You must be a Preterist. You must think the situation is getting better and better Your last paragraph reminds me of the way Rush Limbaugh calls people kooks who point out what has been and is now going on in the world to enslave everybody to the powerful elite. While God is in charge the world will become worse and worse until the end.

6:21 AM  
Blogger Dead Theologians said...

Just considering his views on Hell confirm that he is a heretic.

3:31 PM  
Anonymous dPazos said...

My thoughts exactly. Confirmed! He is a heretic. Mister 'Anonymous' does not like my Eschatology, so he labels me a 'Preterist'. However, I do not hold to a Preterist position on Eschatology, nor am I overly optimistic in a triumphalist or Americanist sense.
Yes, I am a fan of Rush, as is the author of this site, and his brother. You can associate me with him, fine. We both agree on the United Nations apparently. I guess we can respect discrepancies on Eschatology. I esteem yours to be overly paranoid. However, we both side against the UN. Excuse me for putting you in the same category as Tim LaHaye and the Left Behind dudes. I guess you do not side with the Pre-Trib Research Center. Please give your name when you respond, Mister Anonymous.

5:49 PM  
Anonymous george said...

There was this guy who was on trial for his views. for centuries and centuries they thought the world revolved around them. that is what about them. then this unassuming astronomer comes in and corrects the church (who were in charge at this time in history) and told them that he has proof they are wrong. and they want to kill him. they also actually did it with a small-town rabbi who had a similar message with powerful consequences. so, what if that is happening here? what if all this energy spent on slamming people because of different views is actually promoting the very thin you think they might be(heretics). you might want to rethink your approach. where is the love?

9:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really like when people are expressing their opinion and thought. So I like the way you are writing

6:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have tested it and writing form your personal experience or you find some information online?

8:10 PM  

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