Mark Driscoll's Comments About Ted Haggard
I have no idea why Mark Driscoll would make a comment such as this about the revelation of Ted Haggard's sin:
"It is not uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go... They sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him either."
I did not plan on commenting on this Ted Haggard situation, it is something which grieves me a great deal and I didn't really know what to say about it but when I read these comments by Mark Driscoll I had to stop and ask..."why in the world would he say something like this?--is he blaming Ted Haggard's wife for what he did?"
Mark, come on, where in the world are you coming from with a comment like this? You might want to remove the foot out the mouth at this point and maybe not say anything, at least if that is all you can think of.
God is being disgraced right before our eyes. Maybe we should pray that God will intervene and put an end to His name being dishonored before the heathen.
And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, 'These are the LORD's people, and yet they had to leave his land.' I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.
"Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
Ezekiel 36: 20-23
"It is not uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go... They sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him either."
I did not plan on commenting on this Ted Haggard situation, it is something which grieves me a great deal and I didn't really know what to say about it but when I read these comments by Mark Driscoll I had to stop and ask..."why in the world would he say something like this?--is he blaming Ted Haggard's wife for what he did?"
Mark, come on, where in the world are you coming from with a comment like this? You might want to remove the foot out the mouth at this point and maybe not say anything, at least if that is all you can think of.
God is being disgraced right before our eyes. Maybe we should pray that God will intervene and put an end to His name being dishonored before the heathen.
And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, 'These are the LORD's people, and yet they had to leave his land.' I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.
"Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
Ezekiel 36: 20-23
posted by kennyo at 7:45 PM
14 Comments:
Considering the fact that this suggestion (which seems pretty reasonable in the context of the entire blog post) was couched among other suggestions that put all of the responsibility for avoiding sexual sin solely at the feet of husbands, it's pretty safe to say that this wasn't "all (Driscoll) can think of".
How is saying that wives should be sexually available to their husbands any different than saying that husbands should be emotionally available to their wives?
Rae,
I certainly can't speak for Kenny, but I, too, was shocked when I read that article.
Driscoll is wrong for two reasons.
First, he did blame the wife, despite the cute little caveat at the end. Being a guy, I will tell you, it does not matter what my wife looks like; I am supposed to be faithful. And as for the ladies, if your husband isn't quite the chatty type you'd like, you still need to keep your vows. No excuses.
Second, what Driscoll did was cruel. Mrs. Haggard should get an award for staying with the guy at all. Don't you think she's hurting like crazy right now? One iota of thought and Driscoll should have realized this public statement will get back to her, or at least to her friends. and multiply her pain. SHE IS THE VICTIM here. And her kids.
Just how this guy sees it,
Phil Perkins.
There is NEVER any legitimate excuse for a man to cheat or sin sexually against his wife and kids. A real man will obey God and live a holy life even in the midst a sinful or selfish wife (not that it applies here). Mrs. Haggard should be honored for her stance.
I do not have any negative words for Ted Haggard. It's not my place. But a man must be faithful to God, to his vows, to his wife, to his children, to his family and church no matter what happens around him. Let us follow the faithfulness of Hosea and of Joseph (Jacob's son). The wife is NEVER to even share in the blame. Period.
-KCO
At the very beginning of mankind the blame game was started (Genesis 3: 11-13) but we are assured later that each man is responsible for his own sins. We would do well to remember that!
I'm with gomarus. After checking out Driscoll over the past few months and listening ezxtensively to his messages online so I can make an informed opinion of his theology by myself (rather than rely on bloggers or anyone else), I think he is simply crass. And crude.
He's indirectly accusing the wife, who should be canonized for bearing up with God knows what. In the age of AIDS, infidelity is a ticket to nowhere. And Driscoll has the sensitivity of a 16-wheeler at full speed by opening his mouth and disregarding the Haggard kids.
Be careful .... when you think you stand, anybody. I've come to the conclusion, after listening to him, that while he's more orthodox than his EM cousins, Driscoll IS a male chauvinist _______ (you fill in the blank). I've watched in videotape; I've heard him on the pulpit. He doesn't have a very high regard for women, married or not. And you can tell where his mind is at in all this, by bringing up what he believes is Mrs. Haggard's sexual issues.
The comment has no place in the public arena at this time. In the name of authenticity and clarity, he's dressing the riches of Christ in rags.
Shame on him.
"Pastoring in one of America’s least churched cities to a large number of single, young people has been an eye-opening experience for me. I started the church ten years ago when I was twenty-five years of age. Thankfully, I was married to a beautiful woman." --Mark Driscoll
He lost me earlier with the comment above, "Thankfully, I was married to a beautiful woman."
What does that have to do with anything?
It's too bad that this blog has morphed into a message board for a select few. Thus the non-traffic. There are other sound orthodox voices out there; I can't understand what kind of filter you have that keeps those good voices out, even when they agree with you.
Au revoir.
I think the whole world has gone mad. Come to think about it, Jesus said it would!
I am glad you blogged on this. I went to his site to read his comments on this and was stunned that he included that remark in the list. It was quite shallow.
Yes, it was indirectly blaming women for men's indiscretions (sin).
I have seen quite a few beautiful godly women stand by and love a husband who morphed into bald fat old man.
I think Mark needs to get over himself.
Lindon,
OUCH.
Phil Perkins.
In reply to Kim from hiraeth:
When Mark's comments are taken in the context of the preceding and proceeding sentences, the meaning of 'Thankfully, I was married to a beautiful woman.' becomes fairly clear:
As every pastor knows, we are always at risk from the sin in us and the sinful temptations around us. Pastoring in one of America’s least churched cities to a large number of single, young people has been an eye-opening experience for me. I started the church ten years ago when I was twenty-five years of age. Thankfully, I was married to a beautiful woman. I met my lovely wife Grace when we were seventeen, married her at twenty-one, and by God’s grace have been faithful to her in every way since the day we met.
In a situation where many avenues of sin were open to Mark, God in his grace and sovereignty worked through his wife to keep him faithful. He is grateful to God for the help God provided through a beautiful wife. Is it really necessary to criticise someone when they are thanking God for his gracious provision?
Rick Warren is (frequently rightly) criticised for taking proof verses and quoting out of context, but it seems that people leap at the chance to do that very thing with Mark's words. Given the additional context of Mark's most recent blog post, perhaps people will be willing to give Mark a second hearing.
Having an affair with the opposite sex is wrong when you are married or when you are not married and for Mark to blame Ted's wife is ridiculous. Mark seems to love himself and loves to hear himself talk.. just the fact the someone just has to put his 2 cents in can be a very prideful thing to do.
I think there is a difference between a man who cheats on his wife with another woman and a man who does unatural acts with another man.. they are both sins but come on man ! Why did God call it an abomination ? It is different? The one who is into that has a deeper sin that has a strong hold on him that is more tight than most any sin, I believe . Ted's problem has nothing to do with his wife ..he could have the most perfect woman as a wife in all ways and he probably would still go after men . I am not trying to rag on Ted I'm just trying to make point about that particular sin. The Bible is clear when it says that homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of God ..isn't that in the the Bible?
This man Ted Haggard might be a christian ..thank God we are saved by grace .. but he sure does not look like one.. I know we need to pray for him and pray that his children and wife do not turn there backs on Christ because the sin their father and husband has brought into their lives. This is another reminder that sin affects so many others and not just the one who is commiting the sin
Mike
Is Mark that "cursing christian" I've been hearing about?
Sorry, Phil, just making a point.
I should have mentioned that those beautiful godly women did not see a 'fat old bald man' when they looked at their husbands.
They saw a wonderful, handsome and loyal husband.
(I get mental pictures of Mark's wife doing aerobics 10x a week, face lifts and tummy tucks after 5 kids so he won't be tempted)
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