Wednesday, April 25, 2007


What is really amazing in all of the comments in the post below is how the emphasis has been turned from the content of the warning to the method of the warning.

I guess this is to be expected in today's touchy-feely culture.


Parents.... your kids may be in that building.

Sorry if the way I screamed at you hurt your feelings but you had better get out now and after you are on the curb I will give you a hug and tell you that I love you.

The problem is some people DO NOT believe the building is on fire. I believe it is!

True love will warn!!!!



Blogger Neil Eichstadt said...

Dear Kenny

Just a small amont of research into some of yours sources that you post in your warning, makes me doubt there credibility. Some of the people that you are warning againts live lives that demonstrate the love of God at work in and through them. One of your sources slates everyone from Billy Graham to Mother Theresa. If Jesus truly lives in us our lives will demonstrate his love for the world and our greatest desire should be that each person is able to live in relationship with the living God and that we are able to show then this through the way we live. It seems that we struggle to learn from our past mistakes and the crusade that you are on will be as effective as the ones we can read about in history. No one wins. Lots of people die and at the end of the day we have not brought anyone closer to a relationship with the living God.

Yours in His service

1:27 AM  
Blogger J said...

Hi Kenny,

I just wanted to say I enjoy reading your blog. God recently opened my eyes to the emergent heresy and several other major problems in evangelical Christian churches today.

Keep letting Christ use you.
God bless,

1:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Lots of people die and at the end of the day we have not brought anyone closer to a relationship with the living God."

I'm glad there have been no crusade or death threats so far on this blog.

2:38 PM  
Blogger Phil Perkins said...

I want to tweak something Ken Silva said. He made the point that you are not obligated to go to these false teachers privately before confronting them publicly. In this he's right. However, the reason he is right is NOT that they are in another church. Matthew 18 gives the procedure to deal with a sinning brother. It deals with personal sins and offenses.

In both New and Old Covenants, the practice is public confrontation. This is for two reasons. First, false teaching that has been spread has to be publicly corrected for the good of the folks. The alternative would be to go to all the folks individually. That is just not effective leadership or stewardship of time.

Second, false teaching is to be dealt with publicly to instill fear in all the assembly so that they will be warned. Much is learned by example. It DEMONSTRATES the seriousness of doctrinal uprightness.

Read Deuteronomy 12, 13, and 18 for the Old Covenant instructions on this. Add to that Leviticus 19:17-19. Read the accounts of Paul and Jesus dealing with false teaching under the New Covenant. Very interesting is Paul's interaction with Peter having to do with his favoritism of the circumcised believers. This was not even teaching by word, but by action and Paul dealt with it publicly, directly, and harshly.

Finally, ignore your detractors. They are liars. Nothing you have done here is wrong. Deuteronomy 13:1 records this from the Spirit of God for men like you:

"If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign, or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for Yahweh is testing you to find out if you love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul."

To do other than what you have done would be sin. The Spirit continues in Deuteronomy 13: 4-5:

"You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against Yahweh your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which Yahweh your God commanded you to walk So you shall purge the evil from among you."

Don't change.

In Christ,
Phil Perkins.

6:20 PM  
Blogger Phil Perkins said...

To Neil E.,
Since you want us to "love" others, how can you biblically justify disobedience to God? God tells in over and over again in Scripture that false teaching is to be confronted and eliminated.

By what authority have you come to know more than the God who commanded us to eliminate false teachers. I keep reading the Bible so I've missed the boat on this one. Please tell me what book to read, conference to attend, or group to join so that I, too, can begin to understand those parts of the Bible we are to ignore or simply disobey outright.

I have no idea where to start. The Koran? The Message? The Hindu scriptures? Should we read the stars? Give me a hint.

In Christ,
Phil Perkins.

6:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What are you saying. Do nothing? My belief is that the Body of Christ is called to confront each other when they are in error. One of my best friends and I call each other to accountability and I trust his words. What has made me do so, is the fact that he does not stray from scripture. I am reminded of Psalm 141: 4 "Do not incline my heart to any evil thing, To practice wicked works With men who work iniquity; And do not let me eat of their delicacies. 5 Let the righteous strike me; It shall be a kindness. And let him rebuke me; It shall be as excellent oil; Let my head not refuse it. For still my prayer is against the deeds of the wicked." I am of the mind that it was God who called Martin Luther to stand resolutely before the Pope of that day and hold his ground. There is no doubt that evil men distort the truth and will until Christ tolerates evil no more. I believe we are to love peace but not at the price of truth. I am reminded over and over by many, particularly in this debate over UBC's posture on some issues, that we are all interpreters of Scripture. Even in the area of confrontation. Let the iron sharpen the iron. It is my prayer that I am not lead by man or my emotions but by the Holy Spirit.

7:17 PM  
Blogger Neil Eichstadt said...

Dear Anonymous & Others

No we are not to do nothing we are to live our lives demonstrating the love of God in the world that we live.

None of us have all the answers but what really speaks to me is a life lived showing the reality of a relationship with God.

I see you use Martin Luther as and example of someone called by God but even he seems to have a few flaws. One of Kennys references accuses Martin Luther of altering the Gospel and the Bible. Kenny has done great research but is also very selective in what he writes.

What I am trying to say is that we can write all we want. At the end of the day it is what we do that is going to make all the difference. Have we lived like Jesus did not only confronting the religius leaders of the day but also caring for the poor the oppressed, the widows and the orphans who are not going to be impressed by our fancy theology but by the fact that they can see the love of Jesus in us demonstrated to them in a very practical way. This is also for our neighbour the Muslim, the Morman, the Baptist, the Methodist, the Roman Catholic and the man who really does not care. They want to see the reality of Jesus lived out in a practical way. Read the Bible, not just parts but the whole Bible and maybe you first need to understand your neighbour so take the time to read some of his or her favourute books as well. Show them that you love them.

By the way I am looking forward to heaven as I am that many of us are going to be very surprised because we new we did not have all the answers and others are going to be very disappionted because we realise we thought we had all the answers.

4:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ooook -- just two points:

1. Isn't this entire discussion / painful exercise brought about by a legitimate concern over what our YOUTH is listening to? They are tomorrow's pastors and leaders; are we to allow them to go astray? It takes a long time and tons of energy to correct a person's theology that has been crooked from the outset. It merits thinking about what we are allowing our kids to be taught. And since it is a parental responsibility, I applaud any effort to step in and ensure that, in the midst of this crooked world, our youth is being directed in the right path; that is how you prepare them for the tests of life, and not just passing fads.

2. Charles Ryrie said one time that Satan is not happy with a lot of the evil in the world, because it exposes his work. But he IS very thrilled with a lot of the religiosity and good works that are far more deceptive and serve to mask him; because, as we know, he dressed himself in the best looking costume that looks like the real thing. While I admire the emphasis of Bell's church, Mars Hill, and others, on good works toward the poor, sick, and downtrodden, I don't think the Bible gives us a choice: that is, it doesn't tell us to choose between good works and good theology. If anything, sound doctrine leads to good works and a healthy, productive life of service to others. That's what I read in Titus.

Muslims, monks, Buddhists, even atheists, are quite capable of "behaving like Jesus." Many philantropic organizations are founded and run by people who don't believe in the God of the scriptures, or are even antagonistic to Him. Are we to accept their beliefs because of their behavior? Are we to embrace the notion that those people will make it to heaven because they look "more like Jesus" (or so the argument goes) than some Christians we see at church? Wasn't Paul the epitome of human righteousness, yet he was as lost as could be?

11:34 AM  
Blogger Phil Perkins said...

Neil E.,
You cannot both love a sinning brother and fail to confront him. Love demands that you seek to restore him.

Phil Perkins.

5:18 PM  
Anonymous Lin said...

Neil, I know some agnostics that are much nicer and act more like what we sometimes falsly perceive Jesus was like than some professing christians.

You sound like Ghandi who said he would believe Christianity if not for the Christians. What professing Christians may be 'like' has nothing to do with the truth of scripture. It stands alone.

You are also assuming that those who warn of false teachers are not helping widows and orphans. How could you possibly know?

9:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Socialist Colleagues:
I suppose the content of your beliefs no longer matters much. We could believe in UFOs and the Easter Bunny so long as we build orphanages in Bongo Bongo to serve the poor oppressed kids. Make sure to emanate tons of compassion as you help. May your heart bleed as you save the whales, the trees, and the spotted owls. Panic about global warming! Feel guilty about the history of colonialism! Create more government programs for women and non-white victims!

5:13 PM  
Blogger Peter said...

What a cowardly statement, Anonymous (socialist colleagues comment). Trivial, childish, uninformed statements like these have no place for intelligent discussions on faith. I imagine you sat there and thought long and hard of some "funny" statement to make with hopes of communicating a larger message.

And for the record, the "content of [my] beliefs" do matter very much. The truths of the Bible must be defended and salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone must be taught.

10:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I think what Anonymous said (who began with "Socialist Colleagues") was kind of funny and well made.

He's just trying to make a point using a little sarcasm to lighten things up a bit.


1:20 PM  
Blogger Hank said...

I think the words 'Your beliefs' were to be taken in the second person and were not met as a personal assault against you.

9:59 PM  
Blogger Peter said... becomes personal when you say "so long as we build orphanages in Bongo Bongo to serve the poor oppressed kids. Make sure to emanate tons of compassion as you help. May your heart bleed as you save the whales, the trees, and the spotted owls." I happen to believe supporting poor children is a biblical command and as for my heart bleeding, yes, it bleeds when I see people trashing our environment with their gas guzzling SUV's, their daily $5 coffee addiction in paper cups, and their incredible lack of concern over quadrupling the amount of waste we have produced in the past 20 years. I bleed when I see the amazing front range mountains in Colorado veiled in a cloud of sickness-producing smog so thick you can barely recognize the skyline. I could go on...

Comments like these have no place for discussions on faith. I fail to see the humor and how it supposedly "lighten[s] things up a bit" (KCO). So forgive me for taking it personal and finding this attitude far from Christ's attitude.

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greenpeace must be drinking it up at Starbucks with their propaganda victory in the modern church.

5:29 PM  
Blogger Lin said...

"when I see people trashing our environment with their gas guzzling SUV's, their daily $5 coffee addiction in paper cups, and their incredible lack of concern over quadrupling the amount of waste we have produced in the past 20 years. I bleed when I see the amazing front range mountains in Colorado veiled in a cloud of sickness-producing smog so thick you can barely recognize the skyline. I could go on..."

Friend, You really bleed? I can help you with this malady: God is going to burn it all up in the end. Even those mtns. Read Revelations 21 to see what it is going to be like!!

I agree with you about our responsibility toward the least of these but driving an SUV does NOT make me a sinner. (If I had one...I prefer a big gas guzzling car which I call my mothership)

Worship the Creator...not the creation.

10:43 PM  
Blogger Peter said...

Hey go right ahead and ignore the hundreds of verses that teach us to care for our environment. I never said I worship the environment, you drew that stupid conclusion all on your own. And yes, one day it will all be destroyed, then you and I will be held accountable for how we treated it as God's children while God gave it to us as a GIFT.

Oh, and I worship the Risen Savior Jesus in whom all things were Him and for Him.

11:35 AM  
Blogger Peter said...

I would say Col 1:16 is foremost in my mind, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."

This verse reminds me to be the steward God would desire of me for his creation. To care for it, to consume as little of it as possible, to use my resources given to me for God's glory, to minimize my negative impact of those resources. To give back to God for he has given me such a beautiful place to dwell. To return some beauty for what he has given me is beautiful.

Lin, you say..."Friend, You really bleed? I can help you with this malady: God is going to burn it all up in the end. Even those mtns. Read Revelations 21 to see what it is going to be like!!" So, I'll tell you what Lin: since you have this attitude, go ahead and trash your home right now. Yes, tear up the walls, break the lamps, pull up the carpet, let your food rot in the kitchen. What difference does it make, right? God's gonna destroy it anyway. And while your at it, take a baseball bat to your vehicle's windows, slash the tires, throw your kid's bicycles away...God's gonna destroy it in the end. Oh, and when you get to work on Monday, trash your desk, throw your stuff on the floor and smash your computer. After all, God's gonna destroy it anyway. And don't forget to stop eating or drinking. You're gonna die anyway and be given a new body in heaven...why bother caring for it today?

Some things to consider also...Psalm 8:1,9; 24:1; 33:5; 57:5,11; 72:19; 89:11; 104:14

12:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

take it easy man!
The Lord gaves us the earth to use for our gain. Make a living out of.
Plant crops to eat and kill animals to eat.
I say .. Thank you God for your provision!
Mike O.

8:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like my PETA bumper sticker: People Eating Tasty Animals


11:41 AM  
Anonymous dpazos said...

Viva Texas!
Eat plants, animals, and even cake!
This Peter dude has some interesting views on several issues. An environmental sensitive male, a supporter of Buddhist Hollywood stars, what else? Take comfort in God´s sovereign will, all you bleeding hearts, because God is greater than Global Cooling or Warming! He could create a million more whales today if he so chose. Worry about your spiritual life.
I visited Texas myself, the steaks are excellent! It was feeling a little warmer there, but I guess that would be a global phenomenon.

5:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got to get me one of those bumper stickers.. that is funny. Do you hunt ? I know the deer are big in your state.

That was funny .
Mike O.

10:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can get the bumper sticker in many places on the web, like ~ and no, I do not hunt, nor have a rifle, I live in the CITY (thank God) but there is a lot of hunting here, yes. Deer, birds, armadillos and other critters that I don't know about ... being in the city. For all things Texan, you can check and have fun looking at the stuff.

God bless your work.


11:28 PM  
Anonymous dpazos said...

Not all of us Christians are Redneck hunters driving pick-up trucks in the woods. Yes, that was pretty humorous. Some of the stuff on the more recent post about Gere is getting humorous also. I guess some comments are very sensitive to the Hollywood Left, with all its philosophical whims. These whims include Green Tea, Global Warming, Starbucks Lattes, Public Nudity, Transcendental Meditation, and the list goes on...
Please do not use Hollywood wackos as a referrence point!
Perhaps more humorous than using Gere as a source of wisdom would be to cite Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, or Justin Timberlake as sources of wisdom. You dumb down this Blog by even quoting such characters.

1:50 PM  

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