Monday, August 21, 2006

Inside the MIND of an EMERGENT


Below is a comment by a guy named Chip who considers himself to be part of the Emergent church. This was posted in response to an article written by Ken Silva ( ROB BELL: WHAT A CHARACTER)

The reason why I wanted to feature this comment and the response from Ken Silve is because Chip's comment is a perfect example at the ambiguous "postmodern" disillusioned illogical-logic of many in the Emergent church.

It's a bit lenghty but interesting and easy to read.

Chip's comment:

Postmodern method:

As opposed to using the word "ideology" which caries a lot of baggage in society, I used the word method. Let me explain. Since the rise of mathematics and science (mostly due to the Islamic community of the first millinium) the Western world has devoted itself to observation and logic to find facts and truth. Basically, what we see, read, observe is fact and we can use this to derive truth. Biologists observe expiriments to find subtle changes that indicate physical facts. Many Christians read over the Bible to observe and understand the written truth.

However, this was not always the case. During the Golden era of the Greeks, it was believed that truth was what could not be seen. In essence, the observable physical properties that we understand are but shadows of reality. Postmodernity is a return to that mind set. It is not really by choice, but it is the nature of who we (the postmodern generations) are becoming.
I have read and studied the Bible quite extensively and have found nothing that contradicts this mindset. In fact, the opening passage of the Gospel of John (In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God) indicates that the ancient Greek (and now postmodern) mindset is applicable to find Truth. I hesitate to make this generization because I have no doubt I will be misunderstood, but I'll take my chances... because Truth pre-existed the physical document that is the Bible and the physical body that is Christ, postmodernists who seek Truth will seek it from a broader perspective. This isn't to say that the Bible is unecessary or that Christ is unecessary (for both are certainly needed in the walk with God), but that emergent Christians look to connect with God's Truth not purely through scripture but also through an internal/eternal spiritual level. This is why the "hell, fire and damnation" message just won't work on the next generations.
In short, the Bible isn't viewed as absolute truth; it is but a shadow of the Truth. Christ is the Truth, and the emergent, postmodern Christians look to connect to that Truth in a variety of ways, not just by studying scripture.
Jodi, something you must understand. Christ is Truth because Christ is God; no disagreement here... However, to the postmodern, Finding Christ/Truth is a process, and not an instant event. Sure, the first time you begin to experience Truth for yourself it will change your life. But the process of knowing and recognizing Truth doesn't end with knowing about Christ, it proceeds with knowing Christ more intimately, and ends when we die and experience Christ fully. Finding Truth can be defined as the general change to become more Christ-like as we mature and walk with Him.

Again, this is an postmodern, emergent view. It is not the only "method," but it is still Christianity just the same.
Denise, I am not saying stay out of our business or anything to that nature, but it seems that the methods many people choose to employe when "setting the emergent population" on the straight and narrow do nothing more than antagonize and drive us (again the emergent, postmoderns) away from message of absolute truth which you proclaim. This comes from personal experience, from my time in many churches, and conversing with many Christians who have had similar experiences. The harsh words and actions taken to "prevent [me] from falling into the heretical" emergent church did more to change my look of Christ and Truth than anything in my life. Praise God! I might have never begun to understood the nature of salvation without my emergent family.

God bless,
Chip
Posted by: Chip at August 19, 2006 09:49 PM


______

Ken Silva's Reply to Chip:

Chip,

I have allowed this on to show the readers here what is happening to our young people through this Emergent rebellion against the Bible. Now Chip, let me set you straight here as the Hollow Men of the Emergent Church have you pretty twisted up in their warped and toxic view of the Bible.

Bible Method:
You have it twisted right here, "Many Christians read over the Bible to observe and understand the written truth." No, Christians love and revere the Word of God because His Word is Truth (John 17:17)

You say: "It is not really by choice, but it is the nature of who we (the postmodern generations) are becoming." With all due respect, the Lord couldn't care less what any "we" think we "are becoming." Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away." God's Word is eternal and unchanging.
Then you point out: "I have read and studied the Bible quite extensively..." And sadly at this particular time you are found here: "always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3:7) This is an appeal for you to get yourself off this broad path.

Next you say, "In fact, the opening passage of the Gospel of John (In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God) indicates that the ancient Greek (and now postmodern) mindset is applicable to find Truth..." I'm tempted to say you must have hit your head on something because this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to this verse.
This verse is telling us that before anything that has ever been made even came into existence God already was. And the Logos (Word, Who is Christ) already existed with Him and is ontologically of the exact same essence-Deity. This is actually to refute the Greek Gnostic view of the Demiurge as an inferior aeon (being, emanation) to the Pleroma (God).

Next you point out a pet straw man of the Emergent delusion: "emergent Christians look to connect with God's Truth not purely through scripture but also through an internal/eternal spiritual level." This is to imply that true Biblical Christians don't and is fallacious.
And I tell you in the Lord that you'd best pray that the "hell, fire and damnation" message will work on you because at this present moment this is your likely destination as you show zero understanding of what a true saving relationship to Christ is.

Then you erect yet another postmodern straw man: "the Bible isn't viewed as absolute truth; it is but a shadow of the Truth. Christ is the Truth,..." Jesus Himself equated His Words as equally true as He is. And we need to keep in mind here I am actually doing an apologetic on the veracity of Scripture with one who would claim to be Christian. Amazing.
Chip seriously friend, you say, "Finding Truth can be defined as the general change to become more Christ-like as we mature and walk with Him." One cannot be more "Christ-like" until they have been born again. And one cannot be born again until he places his faith in Christ by trusting in His Word that He will do what He says He will. The living Word speaks through His written Word

You are wrong in your conclusion here; "Again, this is an postmodern, emergent view. It is not the only 'method,' but it is still Christianity just the same." No Chip, it's not. It is a counterfeit message of Gnostic mysticism and has prevented you from realizing that the Bible cannot be comprehended by human intellect alone: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:13)

And finally as strongly as I can let me point out that this is a huge misunderstanding of the times you live in: "the methods many people choose to employe...do nothing more than antagonize and drive us (again the emergent, postmoderns) away from message of absolute truth which you proclaim."
It's about time people come to realize that the Christian is proclaim the absolute Truth of God's Gospel from His Bible no matter what it does to anyone who hears it. I am to endeavor to say this as gently, patiently, carefully and lovingly as I know how Chip, but I must tell you that these Emergent deceivers are lying to you. And I care a great deal about that, and I care about you for the Lord's sake.

The message today that you will "soon" hear from more and more of God's messengers is rooted in Isaiah 6:8-10. In a nutshell, the Word is going to go forth with such force it will either blow you off your horse that you might be saved; or it will cause you to ride hard in the other direction, but the Lord be praised His will is going to be accomplished either way. (see-Ephesians 1:11)

Chip, I am not the least bit offended or angry, and I speak the Truth in love to you. If there is anything I can do to help you to better understand these issues I will do so gladly. But I will say once again, the comments forum of Slice is not sympathetic to the Hollow Men of the Emergent rebellion, and you have your own blogs to share your Emergent messages. I thank you in advance for understanding.

Posted by: Pastor Ken Silva at August 19, 2006 10:44 PM

5 Comments:

Blogger carla said...

Wow, I am amazed at the craftiness of the lie, but even more amazed at the wisdom of Ken Silva to set things straight with scripture. Once again the truth stands. Thanks for another tool to help us understand, so that we may not be ignorant of Satan's schemes.

12:37 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

Good post,
I really don't know how these guys can call themselves Christians at all. "The bible is just a shadow of the truth..." and on top of that this guy doesn't even have his history remotely right! Science being birthed out of Islaam?! Pheh!
"Hell fire and brimstone wont work on future generations" Why does "what works" matter? What is true is the real issue. If we go with what "works" we will end up with a message that is a mere echoe of the culture, not counter cultural.

11:08 PM  
Blogger Kennyo said...

Bob,

You are right. The ironic thing is that it actually DOES work. If these people cannot deal with the truth of issues like hell then they are rejecting the true message, they have chosen to reject it as it is taught in scripture.

8:49 AM  
Anonymous dPazos said...

Kenny:
It appears many MMMs have come into vogue. Many call them the 'bells and whistles of our Youth Ministry', like summer camps or banquets or creative acronyms for things like Bible Study (they apparently do not want to use that phrase).
These Man-made Methods are often replacing the substantive teaching of the Word. If teens or adults reject the Truth, that is their problem. Churches must stop trying to 'appeal' so much. Jesus himself said that his disciples would be despised by many people. Liberals want to be liked, seeking human approval or affection. Some will accept us, but some will reject us, that is the nature of the Gospel. By representing it, we have won some, but some despise us also. We must remember both sides of the coin with Ceaser's image. Those who represent the state or the marketplace usually will not be so fond of us! It goes with the territory I suppose.

12:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rock on Ken and Kenny , don't give up the fight . Thank you both for your leadership in defending the Truth.

7:18 AM  

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